This past weekend we did the Zilker Garden Show in Austin texas. Here is a shot of the two houses side by side. In the shot you can see the perch or no perch option and the smaller hole size in the no perch option. The smaller hole size is what we are currently using on all the bird houses. After the drying and firing shrinkage the hole is not at about 1" to 1 1/8". The birders like it better...time will tell what the birds think.